My friend is a GREAT guy; he walks the talk to the extent any of us flawed humans can.  He’s never tried to convert me, he keeps his theology to himself, and he is a wonderful husband and father of four.  I love the man.

But of course I cannot help but try to “convert” him (to sanity, for example, like, the world is 6000 years old thing) when I can.  All names have been removed.

Our exchange.  Enlightening, I think.  Probably better if you read from the bottom up, and I apologize for the lack of paragraphs, which actually exist in the real exchange:

I think Dems’ policies are less harmful to and more aware of the poor.  I don’t think the Roosevelt’s and Kennedy’s (or Edwards) of this world are hypocrites because they were rich and traditionally tried to help the poor.  I think the New Deal worked, and I think Bill Clinton ran a tight economic ship.  I think Jesus was a big fan of poor people, and that you don’t have to be dead to be a mortician. 

I don’t favor a return to the welfare state, but when I send Mary H. stuff like this http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/103815/Where-Do-You-Stand-on-America's-Wealth-Spectrum I personally find myself wondering how on Earth the richest country in the world has let it come to this.  How on Earth does half of my country plus even get by?  What happens to them if something goes wrong, like a flood or a serious illness?

I think the richest country in the world should offer health care to all of its citizens, like the rest of the civilized West.  Republicans think that idea is Satan-driven, and they say so, only they use the old Cold War language of “socialism” to hide it.  I think the money we’ve spent in Iraq but not accounted for could have gone a long way towards making our fellow citizen’s lives better, and maybe save a bridge from collapsing out of nothing but neglect from time to time.  Or helped us work towards energy independence, silly stuff like that.  I don’t think retiring or failed CEO’s need multihundred-million dollar parachutes.  I don’t think Exxon-Mobil’s $30 billion net QUARTERS are coming from anyone but you and me, and those far less fortunate than you and me.

I think the GOP is more concerned with money than anything, ANYTHING else, and I find that most un-Jesus like, despite their political capture of Jesus as a true Republican.

And sorry, I don’t see a lot of Dems caught in criminal acts they legislated for or espouse these days.  It wasn’t the Dems that chased Larry Craig into airport bathrooms, or got Ted Haggard to admit his drug and sex binges with a male prostitute.  David Vitter, he of the diaper fetish, is a notoriously strong “family values” guy.  (Hey, at least his whores were female.)

That’s like C. saying all lawyers are evil.  Ridiculous.  All “anyone” isn’t “anything.”  You should have seen the reaction from the H. family at Thanksgiving when C. blurted out, “I’d vote for Adolph Hitler before I voted for Hillary Clinton.”  To his credit, the overwhelming horror expressed on the faces and in some cases verbally over the next few minutes got him to back down off that one, but it was a telling thing to say nevertheless.

Clinton-hatred is far less rational that Bush-hatred.  The proof is in the pudding.  We may not recover our world standing in our lifetimes, and it ain’t because of the policies (or surpluses) or rest of the world’s opinion of Bill Clinton’s America.  There is talk, and there is action.  The old saying about which is louder is true.

Incidentally, Hillary is my 4th choice among the Dems, and she wouldn’t get my primary vote under threat of death, and I have vowed that if it is the money-making machine Ron Paul, who seems to have a genuine fondness for the ol’ Constitution (which Bush famously once called, “just a goddamn piece of paper”) of this country, vs.. HRC, I will vote for Paul.  I promised some of my wingnut friends, and I’ll follow through.

Are Dems hypocrites, too?  Of course.  But it isn’t a zero-sum, either-or game.  There are degrees.  And right now, the GOP has the market cornered.  It’s ridiculous and unworthy to hide behind the “Sure I am, but so are you!” child’s game when it comes to issues of national concern.  We have serious problems that need addressing, and quite a few of them are real, unlike Saddam’s or Iran’s WMD.  We are now a country that TORTURES prisoners as POLICY, and denies them rights to habeas corpus (a trial, and representation), without charges in many cases.  Just because George Bush said so. 

Hope you had a wonderful weekend!  I have an annual Christmas party to attend tomorrow night, and I’m looking forward to it a whole bunch.  Lots of really nice and fun folks there, every year.

Oh!  And I LOVE your sermons!  To me, the only things worth talking about in life are those important to people, and close to their hearts.

J

Subject: RE: Tough Week for the GOP

Religion doesn’t make or not make you be a hypocrite.  Like I said it is a heart issue.I think you’re choosing to forget many statements from Clinton.  The guy was a hypocrite before, during and after his presidency.  He practiced RANK hypocrisy perhaps as much as anyone else as well.  There isn’t even discussion on this point.  This doesn’t make him a horrible president.  Obviously one can lead and be a hypocrite if he hides it well – Bill and his left wing media friends were masters at this.  You know it.  Lets not pretend it is a right/left issue – c’mon.  Do you think the Dems truly care about the poor?  Or do you think hey play to them to get votes????!!!?  I know you’re smarter than that.  Hypocrisy runs amuck on both sides equally.  Have a great weekend.  I’m getting out of here to enjoy my family and a cold one!

Subject: RE: Tough Week for the GOP

The difference is that Clinton didn’t get his electoral base by telling us how to live our lives.  The other difference is that I try as hard as anyone I know not to be a hypocrite, including you, and it doesn’t require religion to do so, and many on the Evangelical right will tell you that it does.  Sure, we all fail.  But one simple thing you can do to minimize those failures is TO STOP TELLING OTHER PEOPLE how they should behave if you can’t do it yourself.  You do a very nice job of that, by the way.  I don’t think you’re much of a hypocrite.

If you just do that one thing, your hypocrisy factor drops immensely.  Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing another.  RANK hypocrisy is using your power as a business person, elected official, monarch, despot, dictator et al to dictate or try to dictate behavior in others that you do not live up to, yourself.

We knew Clinton cheated on his wife before we elected him the FIRST time.  He admitted he was weak in that regard.  We can live with that, because we can all relate to it.  But he didn’t run his election on “family values” or preach to the rest of us about the evils of adultery.  To that extent, he wasn’t so much of a hypocrite.

Huckabee lied, and guess what?  The evidence is that he did it, ironically, to pander to the Clinton-haters who suspected the guy was framed because the victim happened to be a second cousin once removed of ol’ Bill.  There is plenty of documented evidence at this point.  Letters from Mike to the parole board; letters from past victims begging him not to release the guy, letters from Clinton-haters telling him to do it.  He’s lying.

People make mistakes, and personally I don’t think that one was as bad for Mike as not knowing anything about the recent NIE bombshell about Iran having given up their weapons program in 2003, two days after the story broke and was the biggest thing in the news for 2 days.  That’s smells of “not ready for prime time.”  It’s kind of serious stuff for a Presidential candidate to be aware of, at least.

Romney just went out and claimed to be a believer in Jesus as his savior (uh, as a Mormon elder?), while simultaneously re-writing our Founding Father’s intent, and for the triple bank-shot, declared people like me to be irrelevant to public life.  “Freedom requires religion,” he said, misreading a great deal of the history of Mankind, since all major religions have imprisoned and enslaved to further their cause.  All in all, I think he’s probably a good guy, too.  American politics and “purity” don’t play well, which is why Kucinich and Paul have no chance, darned the luck.

You’re a very good soul, my friend.  Worry not.

And remember, politics IS life, and I am enjoying both.

J

Subject: RE: Tough Week for the GOP Let’s see if Huck is lying.  If he is, I’ll lump him in with ALL the others.  As of right now, I have no reason to not believe him (unlike ALL the others).  Honesty is not that important in a president to you or 99% of the nation – be honest with yourself and don’t be hypocritical.  And to a certain degree I understand.A quick question, why does it bother you that evangelists are “hypocrites”?  Biblical Christians admit that we sin daily, if I sin am I a hypocrite?  Yes I am.  I do my best to not be a hypocrite, but because of the very fact that I am – that’s why I’m a Christian.  You know what I mean?  EVERYONE is a hypocrite – we’re all human.  We all do and want to do what we know we should not do.  If a Christian is a hypocrite it’s a bid deal.  If someone else is a hypocrite we all just kind of laugh about it.  Did Clinton claim to be a “strong” Christian?  Yes.  Was he a hypocrite?  Yes.  Did you hold him to the same standard as other “Christians”?  No.  Is that hypocritical?  Yes.  Do you hold yourself to that same standard?  Not attacking you or anyone else – just writing my thoughts down on a slow Friday.  A “Christian” is not better, nor does s/he think s/he is better, if any “Christian” says that, believes that, or even acts that way then it is total hypocrisy in and of itself!!!!!!!I AM A HYPOCRITE!  I hate it and I try not to be, but I fail because I’m as selfish as the next guy.  However, I don’t just give up and laugh about it and accept it (actually sometimes I do).  I try to do better day by day.  It’s a heart issue though – not a “works” issue.  And that’s where people get it wrong.  Because if it’s not a heart issue you are DOOMED to fail – you will screw up – believe me I’ve tried to do good enough times without the heart being changed.  I succeed for a short time – then sooner or later – I fail.Sorry for the sermon.Have a great weekend!  Lay off the politics for a while and enjoy your life.  Don’t let these bozo’s get you angry – it’s not worth it.  (I know, I know – that’s the problem with America!)Your hypocritical (but good) friend,

Subject: Tough Week for the GOP 

Mind you, I’m using their own words and/or public records here. First, you have perhaps the worst week in Presidential candidacy history, courtesy Rudy: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/060017.php Then you have my favorite Huckabee story, so far:  (Murray Waas is one serious journalist, btw.  Read the bio.  He even went after Clinton.)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/05/former-aide-contradicts-h_n_75519.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/04/documents-expose-huckabee_n_75362.html Remember Willie Horton?  That was enough to disqualify Dukakis. Now you’ve got some Mitt: Read the links:  https://jonorato42.wordpress.com/2007/12/06/i-am-not-a-mormon-at-least-if-im-potus/ Boy, whom is there left to vote for you poor Republicans?  Certainly no one pure. Tough times, for sure.  I think McCain would be OK, but he seems to have lost all of his mojo, courtesy his support of the clusterf**k that is Iraq.  And Bush continues to lie like he doesn’t even care anymore.  http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/04/nie-timeline-take-three/  C’mon, George.  Really.  Sure, most of the American public pays ZERO attention to this stuff, but some of us do.We’re an embarrassing country now.  The rest of the world, formerly believing we were a Beacon of Hope, now thinks we’re retards.  Why?  Because we elected him the SECOND time.  They would’ve forgiven us the first one.I am highly forgiving.  I think it is the right thing to do.  But Bush is pushing my tolerance for it, and I hope I’m right about God, in that He’ll know what is in that fucktard’s heart, and consign him to Hell.